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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Appia Vibbia
3787
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Posted - 2014.09.15 18:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
You can still snipe from one red line to another red line on Ashland Skirmish and Domination using the Tactical
You can still snipe from one red line to another on Manus Peak Domination.
Red line sniping is simple. All you have to really to is play enough to know where the line is on your side and move back beyond the optimal range of any of the 4 main Rifles. 50m back with something to hide behind once you start taking damage and you're survivability is just as high as the kid that's sitting 500m back there on Line Harvest Domination or where the MCC used to be for Manus Peak.
The changes to range are just highly evident that neither Rattati nor any of the CPM he's been talking to have never tried using just the sniper rifle for an entire day. Hell, try only using the sniper rifle for an entire week, allowances for a second light weapon via a commando suit.
The change to range is just nerfing the viability of the weapon. The bigger the map the more that hurts. Skim Junction, Spine Crescent, Boarder Gulch *skirmish* and Impact Ridge.
While maps like Iron Delta, Ashland aren't going to change. It's not going to stop red line sniping because the maps are too small.
Impact Ridge *domination* isn't going to change. The Sniper Rifle is useless anywhere on the map except in the red line or right next to the point where rail tanks like to hang out
Changing the range just puts the Sniper RIfle into Swarm Launcher category. People hate on it because "it's easy to use" yet its use is completely situational.
I can take my Shotgun, Laser Rifle, Mass Driver, Plasma Cannon, Assault Rifle, Combat Rifle, Rail Rifle, Scrambler Rifle and use them on any map. Inside an outpost or surface installation or any of the plentiful rolling hills throughout the maps and use them for a whole map. A Forge Gun and HMG can be used for a whole game though they need support in either the form of nanohives & repair tool or an LAV.
Long gone are the days when Symbioticforks, Gem Cutter, and myself have sniped simultaneously with devastating effect.
But Symbitoicforks already pointed this out, that it's only a situational weapon, you don't care.
Tyjus can support this all he likes, but he's still going to get just as many sniper rifle kills from within 50m as from without, and those total kills will still be eclipsed by nova knives, HMG or any of his other weapons.
@ the kid who thinks forge gunning is hard, it's not. So long as they render getting a body shot with a forge is just as easy with a sniper rifle. 5 shots in the clip? You're lucky if 4 of those deal damage to a stationary target, most likely only 3 are going to register.
The Sniper Rifle is relegated to Swarm Launcher territory. You still don't want one on your team but if no one else is skilled into a better suited weapon than it's going to be good enough for a small duration of the match.
Additionally, I strongly advise that you DO NOT increase the base damage on the STD variants. STD vs STD their numbers are balanced. I'd hope you tone down the power on the ADV so that progression is more useful because as it stands it's in the same boat as the Shotgun, wherein the small percentage doesn't have much baring on number of shots to kill.
Whatever. Range nerfs; straw, camel.
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Appia Vibbia
3792
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Posted - 2014.09.16 19:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:So we made Sniper rifles both unusable and overpowered in the same instance. Let's see how this pans out, nothing is more than a hotfix away from being changed. It is OBVIOUS what will happen. A charge sniper with proficiency and damage mods (probably calmando as well) will headshot OHK essentially any suit. Bodyshots, which are basically a miss for a sniper, will still be doing 450+ damage per shot, so will OHK around half the suits in the field. It is clear from the raw numbers what the effect on 'battlefield diversity' will be. I have 1.5 million saved up and was planning to get a proto assault suit with the extra SP from the Million Clone Challenge. I now realize that would just be a ridiculous waste of SP. Why get a suit that is only good as target practice? These numbers make it clear that SP spent on anything other than sniper rifles, suits for carrying sniper rifles, and vehicles is SP wasted. As for 'a hotfix away from being changed', are you seriously telling me you expect people to keep playing for 2-3 months of getting OHKed from the redline several times every match? Nobody plays this game to be a victim. Ground-pounding infantry will AFK, and when they get sick of that, uninstall. They will not notice when the next hotfix comes out, they will have gone to other games. I don't buy it. Sniper Rifle headshots killed people in Chromosome, and the game wasn't worse off for it. Somewhere along the way, player mentality seems to have shifted from "good shot!" to "I deserve a chance to respond". Who remembers when the click-click of cooking nade meant GTFO? When Sleepy Zan in the killfeed meant get your arse to cover? When everyone jumped to the sound of kickball and a Twin from behind meant certain demise? We've willingly traded that thrill of Chrome combat for the second and third chances of Uprising. Newbros continue to die without a moment's notice, but we veterans? We're entitled to three shotgun blasts to the back, two sniper rounds to the face, and free passes from perfectly cooked prototype grenades. Again, I don't buy it.
Indeed, See this is why I focus on Range. A proper, healthy sniper rifle should have been rewarding headshot damage with unrevivable kills in the frist place. Like it used to. With light weapon sharpshooter I had engaged in snipe-offs exceeding 650m in Chromo.
The headshot damage increase is basically just taking the sniper rifle from where is was in 1.0 and bringing it up to par with 1.8, Before Sentinels got an HP buff, or Assaults, or Armor Plates increased HP by 30 and halved movement penalties.
If that was all you, Rattati, were doing that it would have been the same balancing DPS rifles got when you (CCP devs, not specifically Rattati) changed the damage on them to reflect continuity in TTK
Alpha damage weapons get flamed because one is forced to take precautions to avoid them, rather than just run straight into them to compare HP and DPS.
Your nerf to range isn't a solution to red line sniping. If you really think it is then you've clearly never used the weapon. So long as one team can take all the points in Skirm or have an overwhelming lead in Domination one team will be forced to spawn in their starting location while the other team moves as close to it as possible. That's the biggest cause for this imaginary problem that has no real effect on game play, outside of the times when a whole team is bored because there's nothing left to do except spawn kill.
Rattati, you say it makes it usable in PC. The change does not. It does not allow me to abandon my shotgun/combat rifle/scrambler rifle which are light weapons I can equip for an entire match. It means that if there is a particularly hard encampment I can whittle them down and then have to go back to using my other light weapons.
Reduced range means reduced vantage points means reduced effectiveness.
"OMG Those numbers are huge!" are the ones that don't expect alpha damage weapons to be contenders.
There's no guarantee for a headshot. It's like they're looking at the numbers and saying "yes, every shot is going to be a headshot."
Half the time someone will think they hit their target in the head, because of the server-side delay they will instead end up scoring a body shot.
Again; Hit detection is so awful with the sniper rifle you're probably only going to get 3 of the 5 rounds from the regular variant off, you've got some extreme luck to get 4 shots to connect and some miraculous power to get all 5.
You, Rattati, have clearly not put in any significant time with the weapon. There was one point in time where you had to shoot behind an enemy for it to hit. Currently, you have to lead your target slightly, not because there is any bullet travel time but because of visual delay in the location of dropsuits actually means they have moved further along than you screen displays.
it's laughable how people cry about having a sniper rifle having proper damage to headshots as being OP or FotM, when as Adipem Nothi said, that's what it was like in Chromosome and it didn't break the game then.
The new bros that think they'll just drop a million or so SP into the weapon and instantly be incredible have no clue how awful the aiming is.
The sniper rifle has no aim assist, which they'll be completely lost without, then they'll start to find out about the hit detection problems, and once that is through they'll finally start to see how crappy the aiming is and how silly the Aim Friction on the weapons are.
Fun Fact: I met my current roommate because she and I were dueling with snipers in a corp battle
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Appia Vibbia
3794
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Posted - 2014.09.16 20:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
BTW, I'm really saying that the change to range is an unreasonable nerf. The idea you use to justify it rarely has any effect on a game, other than being the reason the sniper's team lost. And even if it did have some sort of effect, it doesn't even help with the probelm
So here's my plan for these range nerfs:
taking out my Gal-Logi with Wyirkomi triage, Ishukone Gauged, Allotek, and Ishukone Quantom nanohives, placing all 9 of them on top of each other 90m back in the redline, running to a supply depot and switching to my Gallente Sentinel- for that rail gun damage resistance- and sniping with the tactical sniper rifle. 220HP per second so other SR users need to fire at max speed rather than taking the time to aim, my giant pulsing blue bubble will give me enough cover so that they can't aim for the head before I line up a shot on them.
And i'll have them saying, "Did the reticle turn red? I can't tell, it's too bright to see it!"
^^^ You're not fixing that issue by reducing range.
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Appia Vibbia
3795
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Posted - 2014.09.16 21:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tyjus Vacca wrote:Quote:Reduced range means reduced vantage points means reduced effectiveness. Technically yes ,but at the same time no...... what I mean is the amount of players you were going to hit and kill past 400m is so minuscule its negligible. I don't snipe from within 400m. If I need to hit someone within that range then I'm going to rely on the forge. Yes there's a 100m game, but the lack of overwatch points usually mean I was going to sit in the same spot regardless with LoS on the same enemies.
Tyjus wrote:
Trust me no one wants aim assist on sniper *shudder at the though*
Idk about you but I'd rather see how the range nerf plays out before saying its just automatically going to make snipers worthless..... I mean the tacSR is getting the biggest range nerf, but is still going to be the best SR ( soooo OP)
That was a quip at the people who think it's simple to aim it. It's a comment about the people that have never used the weapon expecting to have high level of skill using it right out of the game. Lone straglers or Scouts are a lot easier to pick off then that one logi in the middle of a crowd because of the Aim Friction, slowing you cursor down when you get near and are over the body.
Or how about this: Instead of changing multiple facets of the sniper rifle all at the same time, why not change just the damage (and clip size) And see what that has to do. Rather than throwing in three changes all at once, just reduce the number of effects to 2
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